Second, it's more accurate. Propellant charge is measured in grains. You are using an out of date browser. Muzzle energy is the kinetic energy of a bullet as at the moment it escapes the barrel of a gun. When you take into consideration the cost of a dangerous game safari, its a minimal investment, but the Remington represents a better value for identical ballistics. Because of the unique specifications of .338 Lapua Magnum cartridges, a twist rate of at least 1:9" is needed to ensure a flat and stable bullet trajectory. Both cartridges are also belted magnums with the same .532 rim diameter and the same SAAMI maximum average pressure of 64,000psi. I understand this is an old thread, but want to reply anyway, http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/loads-338-lapua-300-smks-31504/index2.html. Language links are at the top of the page across from the title. N. Northtogladwin Sergeant of the Hide. Or would you rather use a lighter, 8-10 pound .338 Lapua rifle thats easier to carry, but with much more recoil? Maximum average pressure given by SAAMI is 358.53MPa (52,000psi). However, there are honestly very few hunting situations that require a cartridge as powerful as the .338 Lapua. Several instances in truly hot weatherlike Zambezi Valley hotsaw some broken extractors and stuck cases, resulting in a hunter holding a club instead of a rifle. The cartridge is capable of firing a 15.0g (231gr) bullet at 920m/s (3,000ft/s). Ammo is slightly less expensive, too, at $2 to $5 per shot compared to Rigby's at $4 to $8 a pop. The Rigby case has an overall length of roughly 2.900" and has little body taper. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. If youre looking for a long-range rifle, the .416 Barrett is definitely worth considering. The .416 Rigby loaded with the 26g (400gr) bullet at 736m/s (2,415ft/s) as the Hornady's DGS and DGX ammunition are, has an MPBR of 181m (198yd). The years following World War II were a true renaissance of civilian firearm and cartridge development in the United States. 6.5 Grendel vs 6.5 Creedmoor: Which 6.5 Cartridge Is Right For You? Mossberg 500 vs 590: Which Shotgun Is Right for You? Out to 1500 yards, the .338 Lapau will drop 804" while the .300 PRC will drop 776". While considered overpowered for the big cats, the .416 is regularly used for the hunting of these felines. [2] It is the first cartridge to use a bullet of .416 inch (10.57 mm) diameter. It also shoots smaller and lighter bullets and has less recoil than the other two cartridges. Now, this particular Weatherby rifle (which is indeed currently manufactured and sold by Weatherby) is a pretty light hunting rifle for a cartridge like the .338 Lapua and I only used it to provide an apples to apples comparison of the three cartridges. 338 LM vs. 408 Chey Tac I am building a 416 . BUY SOME EXCELLENT 300 WIN MAG HUNTING AMMO HERE, BUY SOME GREAT 338 WIN MAG HUNTING AMMO HERE, BUY EVEN MORE 338 WIN MAG HUNTING AMMO HERE, BUY SOME QUALITY 338 LAPUA HUNTING AMMO HERE. The 416 CheyTac costs about $0.80 per round while the 338 Lapua costs about $13 per round. Maybe you can arrange to shoot a couple big bores? Ruger produced approximately 1,000 rifles between 1991 and 2001, dramatically boosting the number of .416 Rigby rifles in circulation. It has an overall length of 91.4 mm with a shoulder diameter of 13.3 mm and uses a rim diameter of 13.6 mm. The cartridge was designed to fire a 31g (480gr) bullet at 725m/s (2,378ft/s). The .338 Lapua is also an extremely potent long-range caliber, and it has the added benefit of being less expensive than the .416 Barrett. Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. World's most popular community & resource for hunting in Africa since 2007. 338 Win Mag vs 375 H&H vs 416 Remington. Best thing to do if you can is to shoot one first then decide. If you are looking to do some long range shooting, the .338 Lapua is an excellent choice of caliber. For this reason, there are some massive differences between those three cartridges and they have very different strengths and weaknesses. There's a ELR finally opening up in Michigan and its time I got something a little bit better than the 308. 416 CheyTac and 338 Lapua are both extreme long-range precision rifles. Thanks for your support. Do you want an ideal cartridge for especially large game like red stag,moose, eland, or a big bull elk? Add to Cart It was made by Rigby of London on a Mauser 98 action, chambered for a proprietary cartridge: the .416 Rigby. This means that the momentum of a rifle's reaction will exactly equal the momentum of the bullet and powder gasses ejected from the barrel. Best .300 Winchester Magnum Ammunition For Hunting Elk, Deer, Moose, & Other Big Game. 5 action was easily adapted for use with the .416 Rigby cartridge. Major ammunition manufacturers like Norma, Federal, and Hornady began producing .416 Rigby ammunition to meet the new demand. The .416 Rigby would go on to become one of the most successful dangerous game cartridges designed for a magazine rifle. if I had to shoot further then 200 yards then the 375 would be a better choice. It holds 137 grains of water after being fireformed - about an 11% increase in capacity. regarding the case and chamber dimension specifications for the .416 Rigby cartridge. The .338 Lapua and .338 Win Mag both utilize larger .338 caliber bullets. Do you spend a lot of time in the mountains or the backcountry mountain goat, sheep, ortahr huntingwhere its really nice to have a lightweight rifle? If you are looking for the most power and accuracy, then the .416 Barrett is the better choice. Thanks for reading! As you can see, the .338 Win Mag has a little bit (~16% more) more free recoil energy than the .300 Win Mag. On the other hand, since they dont require a really long barrel or a heavy rifle for best performance, the .300 Win Mag and .338 Win Mag are both manufactured in a number of really good bolt-action hunting rifles. The .338 Winchester Magnum put the .338 bore on everybody's radar screen. In conclusion, .338 Lapua Magnum and .416 Remington Magnum cartridges are not identical. I recognize that fit, design etc. Lets find out: In general, rifles use larger ammunition than handguns. Improved may go faster but not worth it IMO. While the initial cost of a .416 Barrett rifle may be higher than a .338 Lapua rifle, the overall cost of ownership is lower because ammo is cheaper and brass is easier to find. Magazine capacity is my first reason. 5 action. Though the record has since been broken, British Army sniper Corporal of Horse Craig Harrison held the record for the longest sniper kill for many years while using an Accuracy International L115A3 sniper rifle chambered in .338 Lapua Magnum. for DG I would go 416 but as other have said that a really big jump from a 308 and if it bites you and beats you up then you wont shoot it, you will start flinching, etc, etc. The .308 was designed as a front line cartridge that found its home in the sniping and light machine gun community. So, the 416 CheyTac has a slightly higher recoil energy. Out of stock. However, thedesigners of each cartridge were trying to accomplish very different goals and built each one prioritizing specific attributes. mandates a 6-groove barrel with a bore diameter of 10.36mm (0.408in) and a groove diameter of 10.57mm (0.416in) with each groove being 3.60mm (0.142in) wide and a twist rate of 420mm (16.54in). The 416 would be more than 3 times as much as 308 if you go on number alone. As the Magnum Mauser 98 action became scarcer after World War II, .416 Rigby rifles were built on Enfield P-17 and the BRNO actions. Secondly, it is quite rare. 416 CheyTac vs 338 Lapua. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. The length of a .416 Remington Magnum cartridge is 72.4mm millimeters. JavaScript is disabled. The diameter of a .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge is 0.338 inches (8.5852 millimeters). Among the black bears, pronghorns, mountain goats and mule deer were eight typical and eight non-typical whitetails taken in nine different states. Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .223 Remington round averages out to 1250 ft-lb, while a .338 Lapua Magnum round averages out to about 4830 ft-lb. "Rigby Marks 275th Anniversary", in. Since they use larger diameter bullets, the .338 Win Mag and .338 Lapua have about 20% more frontal surface area (also known as cross sectional area) than the .300 Win Mag (.0897 vs .0745 square inches). Its not an extremely widely used or popular cartridge, but the .338 Win Mag is very well-liked in that portion of the hunting community desiring a powerful and reliable medium bore rifle, like brown/grizzly bear guides up in Alaska. The Mauser 98 action provided the consumers and gun makers an inexpensive alternative to the double- and single-shot rifles which until that time predominated the dangerous-game hunting scene. So, why is 416 CheyTac ammo so expensive? If you prefer the Rigby based on cool-factor alone, I totally get it. Unlike the Remington and Rigby cartridges, the .416 Ruger, due to its case having even less capacity than the Remington, operates at near its peak allowable pressure to emulate the performance of the Rigby and Remington cartridges' factory ammunition. In the end, it is up to the shooter to decide which cartridge is best for them. Even so, the .338 Win Mag is not rare by any stretch of the imagination and rifles like the Browning X-Bolt, the Mossberg Patriot, the Ruger American, Guide Gun, and Hawkeye, the Savage 110, theTikka T3x, as well as the Winchester XPR and the Model 70 are available in both cartridges. Again, depending on the exact load in question, the .338 Win Mag either has the most arching trajectory, or the second most arching trajectory (either ahead or behind the .338 Lapua). Rating: % 33 Nosler 225gr Expansion Tip Ammunition. If buffalo is all you intend to hunt, go with the 375. In the shooting sports we call that reaction recoil or "kick." "I am not a good shot, but I shoot often" - Theodore Roosevelt. Between 1912 and the beginning of World War II, John Rigby & Co. produced 169 .416 Rigby rifles and 180 between 1939 and 1984. Re: Barrett 416 versus 338 LM I do not have experience in shooting the .416, but do have experience with the .338 LM. There are also some very important differences between the three cartridges when it comes to bullet size. In general, bullets with more mass and less drag will have higher ballistic coefficients and will travel farther distances. The .338 LM is a great ELR round. Winchester offered the cartridges in their legendary Model 70 rifle and marketed each one to a particular segment of the American hunting community: the .264 Win Mag to western hunters wanting a flatter shooting cartridge for thin-skinned game like mule deer or pronghorn, the .338 Win Mag to hunters pursuing really large and/or tough North American game like moose and grizzly bear, and the .458 Win Mag to hunters going afield after dangerous game like cape buffalo in Africa. This is one of the rare instances where youll see me give the nod to a new design over the old, especially among the African cartridges; I do, in fact, prefer the .416 Rem. 338 Win vs. 338 Lapua VS. 33 Nosler. But if you use the improved version of the Lapua, it will also get you 100-150 fps more velocity as well and do so with less powder then the Rigby and no brass forming needed other then fireforming which is also needed with th e338-416. It may not display this or other websites correctly. 7mm Rem Mag vs 300 Win Mag: What You Know May Be Wrong. Of course, the .338 Lapua is also just a great option if youre looking to do some target practice or plinking. One way to think about this is as such: a foot-pound is a unit of energy equal to the amount of energy required to raise a weight of one pound a distance of one foot. The .338 Lapua is now also available to civilian shooters, and it is becoming increasingly popular for long-range shooting and hunting applications. The result was the introduction of medium-bore big-game cartridges .375 H&H Magnum, .416 Rigby, .404 Jeffery, and .425 Westley Richards. From its release in 1911 until the beginning of WWII, there were less than two hundred .416 Rigbys made, yet it had developed a great reputation among the serious hunters in East Africa. Maximum average pressure given by C.I.P. The C.I.P. The higher velocities produced by cordite allowed the use of smaller diameter projectiles which penetrated big game much more reliably.[4]. Reloading data is also widely available, making it easy to handload your own rounds. Full Member. Go with the .338 Lapua. The .338 Win Mag is a little more expensive, but .338 Lapua factory ammo is by far the most expensive of the bunch and can cost twice as much (or more) than .300 Win Mag ammo. By the 1970s, with the demise of the British ammunition supplier Kynoch as an entity, the supply of .416 Rigby ammunition was dwindling, and many hunters, including Selby, set aside their .416 Rigby rifles, taking up the more popular .375 H&H Magnum, .458 Winchester Magnum, and .458 Lott. His safari batterya .220 Swift, .30-06 Springfield, .375 H&H and a .470 Nitro Expresswas based on the recommendations of friends; he was well advised. I prefer the 416 to the 375. Finally, the .300 Win Mag utilizes .308 bullets while the .338 Win Mag and .338 Lapua both shoot larger .338 bullets. Finally, its less expensive than the .338 Lapua. The problem is that most .338 Lapua rifles are specifically designed for military use and/or civilianlong range precision shooting and are therefore expensive, very heavy, and have a really long barrel like the Accuracy International AXMC, the Barrett MRAD, or the Sako TRG. "A buffalo could probably be taken with a well placed frozen herring but, the question is: "What's the point"?" This is the standard to which Federal, Hornady, Nosler, and Winchester load their ammunition. The cartridge is based on the .416 Rigby necked up to 11.6mm (0.458in). Due to its longer case length and the difference in placement of the shoulder, the .300 Win Mag does have a slightly greater case capacity than the .338 Win Mag. However, if youre looking for a more versatile cartridge that can be used for both long-range precision shooting and close-quarters combat, then the 416 CheyTac is a better option. 30-06 shooting a 180 Gr. If that didnt make the shooting world cock an eyebrow, the Model 700 rifle it was chambered in featured a push-feed design (as they all have) and a relatively small extractor. Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .22-250 Remington round averages out to 1620 ft-lb, while a .338 Lapua Magnum round averages out to about 4830 ft-lb. The .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge has a muzzle energy of 4768 foot-pounds while .416 Remington Magnum cartridges have 5116 foot-pounds of muzzle energy. All three cartridges will work just fine under these circumstances from a purely ballistics perspective. Specifically, thedesigners of the .338 Lapua were trying to build a very accurate and flat shooting round that was more powerful and had a longer effective range than the 7.62x51mm NATO, but did not require as large or heavy of a rifle as the .50 BMG. The 338 Lapua uses Lapua brass and is much tougher than the soft Norma brass. If you are willing to pay more for slightly higher performance, then the 338 Lapua is a good choice. When it comes to dangerous game, more is better. The 300 Norma has a base diameter of 0.585 in, and the 338 Lapua is 0.587 in. The 416 Rigby is supposed to be a low pressure round, unlike the hot-rodded Weatherby rounds. We've got you covered. .308 Winchester vs. .30-06 Springfield .22 Nosler vs. .224 Valkyrie .300 Win. This being said, handguns are generally limited in their ammunition size. This round is capable of delivering a very large amount of energy to the target, and it can do so with great accuracy. I had looked at purchasing a 338WM serveral years ago and still thought of buying one now. Finally, the demand for this ammo is quite high. Check out this story from contributor Mike Roux, for an excellent and educational anecdote highlighting the importance of a full quiver of calls. So, which one is better? What if you hunt in Canada or Alaska and need a heavy hitting cartridge just in case you find yourself on the wrong end of a grizzly/brown bear attack? Energy. That depends on your needs and preferences. The .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge is a redesign by Lapua of a prior designed by Research Armament Industries (RAI) and Brass Extrusion Labs Ltd. (BELL) known as the .338/416. The bore diameter refused to fade, with several important developments that aided its relevance. During World War II most Axis and Allied nations, with the exception of the Americans (M1 Garand), British (LeeEnfield), and the Russians (MosinNagant) used rifles based on the Mauser 98 action. Both cartridges are excellent for long range shooting. Prices and availability vary from region to region, but the .300 Win Mag is by far the most common and least expensive. Its lighter chamberings make it easy for recoil-shy shooters to field and makes it ideal for target work, too. CheyTac rifles are some of the most accurate and reliable sniper rifles on the market today. The 338 Lapua rifle for sale delivers premium power and precision for virtually any long range scenario. The 338 Lapua has a muzzle velocity of 2960 fps and is effective out to 1800 yards. I greatly prefer the 416 over the 375 but I typically do not shoot animals outside of 200 yards. Clearly, that rifle in .338 Lapua would have a very stout recoil. The energy generated by the cartridge was on par with that of .450 Nitro Express which, until the ban on the 11.6mm (0.458in) caliber in India and the Sudan in the early 1900s, had been the standard of measure for dangerous game rifles. Many of the really big ammunition manufacturers like Barnes, Berger, Federal, Hornady, Norma, Nosler, Remington, Swift, and Winchester produce a good quality hunting ammo for all three cartridges. 150 grain, 165 grain, 180 grain, 190 grain, 200 grain, and 220 grain bullets are the most popular for the cartridge. Rigby ammunition is expensive, roughly 30 percent more than .416 Remington ammo. Gerard458; Feb 1, 2020; Firearms & ammunition; Replies 19 Views 4K. The .338 Lapua cartridge is a great choice for those who want good accuracy and terminal performance. The 98B weighs 12.4-13.5 pounds (depending on configuration) and starts at $5039.99 without optics. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction; that is one of the physical laws of our universe. I am only new to big bores and started with a 375 then worked unto a 416rigby. So where do we stand with each cartridge? However, there is one other cartridge that comes close to matching the .416 Barrett in terms of power and performance: the .338 Lapua. John Hunter provided a testimonial to John Rigby & Company stating "You will be pleased to know that the rifle which accounted for all the rogue lions on my last hunting expedition was the .416 Bore Magazine Rifle you supplied me with. However, if you need a bit more range, then the .338 Lapua may be a better option. The .416 Barrett is a heavy hitter in the world of long-range shooting. 1 weighing 11.5 pounds. All other things being equal, a bigger bullet will make a bigger hole, cause more tissue damage, and result in more blood loss. Book an outstandingAfrican huntingsafari here. Jeffery & Co, and Westley Richards designed cartridges which could operate in the Magnum Mauser 98 action and could offer big-bore nitro express ballistics and performance in a magazine rifle which was what the British called their bolt-action rifles. 416 CheyTac and 338 Lapua are both extreme long-range precision rifles. The .338 Lapua has also gradually crossed over into the hunting community in recent years. The .416 Weatherby Magnum, which uses a case of similar size as the Rigby, is capable of launching the same bullet at 820m/s (2,700ft/s). The best shooting most consistant rifle I own is a 308 Rem 660 action with a Broughton 5c #4 barrel built by Jared Joplin. The .416 Rigby cartridge case is of a unique design in that it had no prior cartridge case acting as a parent cartridge during its development. It is based on the 375 Ruger case and fires a 400-grain bullet at a muzzle velocity of 3000 feet per second. It has a bit more range than the .416 Barrett, but it is not quite as accurate. The reality of dealing with a such a powerful cartridge that was originally designed for extreme long range performance presents the user with a dilemma: do you want to lug a really big and heavy rifle weighing upwards of 15 pounds with a 26-28 barrel through the woods or up a mountain? Minuteman. However, the .338 Lapua can generally use heavier bullets than the .338 Win Mag. Too many times I have been in a place where you absolutely depend on a rifle of this caliber, and a broken extractor would be a terrible thing. Beretta 80X Cheetah Beretta A300 Ultima Patrol Glock 28 FN 510 Tactical FN 545 Tactical FN SCAR 15P HK . Even so, I dont think you can go wrong with the .300 Win Mag for any of those species during a hunt in Africa, North America, Europe, New Zealand, or elsewhere. . The 338 Lapua Magnum and the 300 Winchester Magnum were . .416 Rem Mag.44-40 Win.444 Marlin.45-70 Govt.450 Bushmaster.450 Rigby.458 SOCOM.458 Win Mag.470 Nitro.50 Beowulf.50 BMG.500 / .416 Nitro Express. Extreme long range rifle tests and comparison on target at 818 yards with thermal camera. The design of the huge case, with the 45 degree shoulder and its immense girth, points directly at corditethe common smokeless propellant at the time of the .416s inception. is 325.00MPa (47,137psi) for this cartridge. It is measured in foot-pounds and is used to determine the destructive potential of a bullet. The .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge is a redesign by Lapua of a prior designed by Research Armament Industries (RAI) and Brass Extrusion Labs Ltd. (BELL) known as the .338/416. Driving a 410-grain bullet at 2370 fps, it quickly developed a reputation for being a big-game stopper; few hunters who ever used one for any length of time ever had a complaint. American sniper Chris Kyle also used the .338 Lapua to achieve his longest personal kill of 2,100 yards (1,920 meters) in Iraq back in 2008 (American Sniper, p398-399). 50fps is WAY too aggressive gains per inch. While relatively rare, hunters like John Pondoro Taylor loved it, and even W.D.M. Lapua of Finland commercialized the design in 1989 as a rimless bottleneck large rifle magnum primer. As Ive stated multiple times in this article, the .300 Winchester Magnum, the .338 Winchester Magnum, and the .338 Lapua are all excellent rifle cartridges overall. It isn't that bad and a .375 H&H with 300 grain loaded to 2450fps will kill anything on the planet! This came at a price though, in the form of higher chamber pressures. [citation needed], With renewed interest in dangerous-game hunting in Africa, the demand for big-game cartridges increased. The .338 Lapua was first introduced in the 1980s, and it quickly gained popularity among militaries and law enforcement agencies around the world. Scopes, guns, boots and other tactical stuff in-between. [2] It fires a .51-caliber bullet weighing 750gr (49g) at roughly 1,050ft/s (320m/s). [5] Between 1984, when Paul Roberts took over the John Rigby & Co., and 1997, when the company was purchased by Geoff Miller's investment group, 184 more rifles were produced. More extreme long range shooting at 2300, 2192 and 2500 yards with a little wind side effect explanation in the middle.More fun with footage shooting hand lo. So, theres a plethora of good quality bullets available to go around. play a roll in the "felt recoil" the numbers referenced is the amount of energy that needs to be dealt with. The rifles, as built by John Rigby & Co., were initially made up on the Magnum Mauser 98 action (a derivative of the Gewehr 98 bolt-action rifle), although in later years, some were made on standard length actions, a perfect example being the rifle used by legendary professional hunter Harry Selby. Speaking of optics, the hooded display on top of the 98B is a Barrett Optical Ranging System (BORS). The .416 Barrett is capable of amazing accuracy at long range, thanks to its high ballistic coefficient and flat trajectory. Interestingly enough, theres not a tremendous difference in the trajectory of the three cartridges out to 500 yards: just 5.6 between the flattest and the most arching trajectory. SKU : S338LCT. However, both cartridges have very manageable recoil and are easy to shoot accurately. [4] The performance of these cartridges on game matched the performance of the big-bore Nitro Express cartridges.